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Fandom Snowflake
Day 14: In your own space, talk about what you think the future holds for fandom.
Where is fandom going? I don't know. I know where it's been though, for me anyhow. The Tolkien slash corner when I wandered in was like a spiderweb of interconnected circles, first on Yahoo Groups and then on LiveJournal. We didn't all talk to each other and hang out, but we knew of each other and there was a general sense of belonging.There were fights, some really ugly, there were BNFs who could be difficult, but there was always an underlying love for the elves and men we wrote and read about and concern for one another. I tended to keep my personal life to myself, but when my MiL passed, when my much-loved dog died, when I was diagnosed with cancer, I shared these things and all the support and love and kindness that came back to me were incredibly precious.
That community has more or less fallen apart now, people move on, get busy, have more responsibilities in life. People who came in via the movies weren't always drawn to the Silm when it moved to the centre of Tolkien fandom, the days of 'write the story, don't worry too much about canon' gave way to a bigger focus on 'scholarship', which felt elitist to a lot of writers who honestly were just there for the elves and knew a bit of background but didn't have any urge to study HoMe, they just wanted to tell stories (often about characters no one writes about now). I miss those days and those people and that attitude -- fun and love and a bit naughty and under the radar and there for each other. Many of us were the type of friends who exchanged Christmas cards and birthday greetings (and sometimes gifts). Those friends I still have are doubly dear to me now.
I might find something similar one day in the right Discord, but really to me Discord is just like a Yahoo Messenger group chat that goes on and on and on and I only know some of the people and very often the topic doesn't talk to me... I am not an early first age person as a rule, except for Gondolin. Posting - I know this is a general fandom malaise, but we got comments back then. Lots of them. Even on very average fics. I never posted anything that didn't get at least a few comments on LJ, and I was not one of the mainstream writers (did not write E/G back then, nor twincest or Legolas, both very popular). There was never that sense of writing into a void and there was always someone to measure yourself against, someone to look up to, someone to encourage.
So that's some fandom history. Where is it going? I don't know. I don't think we'll have the answer this time next year either. Fandom isn't leaving Tumblr yet, though it will eventually. They only left LJ when there was a sure landing on Tumblr. There's a new generation over there that doesn't know anything else, but there are many of us who've been around for a while and know it can be better. Pillowfort showed promise but they got the spotlight trained on them way too soon and I think were found wanting --- it's a shame, because they have threaded comments, likes, reblogging, all in the same place, but so clunky and awkward at this stage that it's not a pleasure to go play there (and no easily altered themes, oh come on people, even Tumblr knows that matters!). So, it's not the answer yet. Twitter? Oh dear god, I hate Twitter! What I'd love to see is something as user-friendly as LiveJournal, with the threaded comments and image hosting, plus reblogging. I still host images on LJ when I'm in a rush and when I make a post that needs complicated formatting, I go over there and write it, then copy/paste. Why? Because it's a smoother ride. Sorry Dreamwidth, still some distance to go.
Fandom will go on, because as long as there are tales that have gaps that ask questions like 'what then?' and 'why?', people will fill those gaps as we have since time out of mind. The shape that will take further down the road -- who knows? Whatever happens, I hope we don't fragment too far because one day we'll lose touch so completely that the only place we'll occasionally connect will be in the comment threads on AO3. And that would be so sad because fandom is about the writers and artists and the magic they create and the way imagination sparks from one to the other. This is our sandpit, we need to treasure it.
(okay, that was depressing af but I needed to get it off my chest)
Where is fandom going? I don't know. I know where it's been though, for me anyhow. The Tolkien slash corner when I wandered in was like a spiderweb of interconnected circles, first on Yahoo Groups and then on LiveJournal. We didn't all talk to each other and hang out, but we knew of each other and there was a general sense of belonging.There were fights, some really ugly, there were BNFs who could be difficult, but there was always an underlying love for the elves and men we wrote and read about and concern for one another. I tended to keep my personal life to myself, but when my MiL passed, when my much-loved dog died, when I was diagnosed with cancer, I shared these things and all the support and love and kindness that came back to me were incredibly precious.
That community has more or less fallen apart now, people move on, get busy, have more responsibilities in life. People who came in via the movies weren't always drawn to the Silm when it moved to the centre of Tolkien fandom, the days of 'write the story, don't worry too much about canon' gave way to a bigger focus on 'scholarship', which felt elitist to a lot of writers who honestly were just there for the elves and knew a bit of background but didn't have any urge to study HoMe, they just wanted to tell stories (often about characters no one writes about now). I miss those days and those people and that attitude -- fun and love and a bit naughty and under the radar and there for each other. Many of us were the type of friends who exchanged Christmas cards and birthday greetings (and sometimes gifts). Those friends I still have are doubly dear to me now.
I might find something similar one day in the right Discord, but really to me Discord is just like a Yahoo Messenger group chat that goes on and on and on and I only know some of the people and very often the topic doesn't talk to me... I am not an early first age person as a rule, except for Gondolin. Posting - I know this is a general fandom malaise, but we got comments back then. Lots of them. Even on very average fics. I never posted anything that didn't get at least a few comments on LJ, and I was not one of the mainstream writers (did not write E/G back then, nor twincest or Legolas, both very popular). There was never that sense of writing into a void and there was always someone to measure yourself against, someone to look up to, someone to encourage.
So that's some fandom history. Where is it going? I don't know. I don't think we'll have the answer this time next year either. Fandom isn't leaving Tumblr yet, though it will eventually. They only left LJ when there was a sure landing on Tumblr. There's a new generation over there that doesn't know anything else, but there are many of us who've been around for a while and know it can be better. Pillowfort showed promise but they got the spotlight trained on them way too soon and I think were found wanting --- it's a shame, because they have threaded comments, likes, reblogging, all in the same place, but so clunky and awkward at this stage that it's not a pleasure to go play there (and no easily altered themes, oh come on people, even Tumblr knows that matters!). So, it's not the answer yet. Twitter? Oh dear god, I hate Twitter! What I'd love to see is something as user-friendly as LiveJournal, with the threaded comments and image hosting, plus reblogging. I still host images on LJ when I'm in a rush and when I make a post that needs complicated formatting, I go over there and write it, then copy/paste. Why? Because it's a smoother ride. Sorry Dreamwidth, still some distance to go.
Fandom will go on, because as long as there are tales that have gaps that ask questions like 'what then?' and 'why?', people will fill those gaps as we have since time out of mind. The shape that will take further down the road -- who knows? Whatever happens, I hope we don't fragment too far because one day we'll lose touch so completely that the only place we'll occasionally connect will be in the comment threads on AO3. And that would be so sad because fandom is about the writers and artists and the magic they create and the way imagination sparks from one to the other. This is our sandpit, we need to treasure it.
(okay, that was depressing af but I needed to get it off my chest)
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I love the Silm and Silm fandom, but I know what you mean. I think it can feel like there are high barriers for entry now, as increasingly writers draw on not just the published Silm, but HoME, Parma Eldalamberon, the Letters...not that that's a bad thing, but it shouldn't be seen as a minimum requirement for participating in the fandom. It's only very recently that some of those texts have become (relatively) widely available, and it's flipping expensive to acquire the whole lot.
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I know a decent amount of canon and where to look for things (or who to ask) if I need information, but there's no way I can afford to buy the more obscure works. I think the emphasis that's crept in on the need for scholarship would frighten me right away if I hadn't been here this long, and it's a pity because it's not a prerequisite.
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Yes, exactly. I do read non-fiction works on history and even geography sometimes, but to me a story is about characters, not about seeing how many obscure references you can fit in a fic
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I remember when I was writing Dark prince and had come straight from the RP fandom side, where the only Elves they ever played were Galadriel and Legolas, and they were so soft and glow-y that you could not imagine them doing anything more exciting than drinking wine. They were written as almost saintly and peaceful.
So I had to unearth a (then) quite obscure bit from War of the Jewels about Elves feeling unambiguously negative emotions about other Elves, when I wrote Elgalad being bullied by Malthador in Mirkwood, just to stave off the objections! (That Elves were always tree-hugging lovely-dovey to other elves and would Never Act Like That).
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LOL, were they fuck...had they heard of The Silmarillion!? ;)
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Too many times, even on the SWG Discord, someone has popped up with a tidbit from HoME that contradicts what I was saying as if they expect me to change my mind because HOME is given equal, if not overriding, consideration than the Silm itself. I shouldn't feel inadequate simply because I focus on Silm canon! I shouldn't need to feel like I have the entirety of M-e memorized to participate yet there are times I do. And if I'm feeling that way...
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Tolkien's views kept evolving, anyway. I think as long as there is in-story/in-verse consistency, fic writers should focus on whichever bits of "canon" make the most sense to them.
(ETA - Keiliss, sorry for borrowing your comments section to moan...!)
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Yes. As long as the story makes sense, why should it matter whose father Gil-galad is or hair color or balrog wings or whatever else?
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I've written Gil-galad regularly for years, and unless he's a small child or the line of descent is relevant to the fic, I cannot see why it matters who his father was. I decided on Orodreth at least in part because I like the idea of a minor royal becoming king (and that Galadriel is his great-aunt) but by the time of the war with Sauron it could as easily have been Fingon, either way it wouldn't affect the story.
And if his mother and grandmother both had dark hair, there's no reason why he should still have the family's trademark blond hair --- but equally he might. Writer's choice. (I went with dark).
And balrogs will have wings if it fits the fic and they won't if it doesn't. People can be incredibly petty when all they need do is ask themselves if the choice makes sense within the confines of the story and if it seems even faintly plausible.
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Didn't you know? They share the same perfume (Giorgio Armani's Acqua di Gio to be exactly. ;c)
here is my Celegorm eye candy vid
Sorry, couldn't resist. *walks off giggling*
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And yes, quite.... wow!
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Exactly! I admit I'm on the canon-compliant end of fandom... but a good story is necessary for anything to work well. Heart and enthusiasm show and make more of a difference than being nitpicky to oblivion.
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Err, what?! Honestly, some people...
Incidentally, I love the idea of Maglor with a dog. Which fic of yours is that?
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Rise Again From Ashes.
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YESSSSSS, do it! A mean, wolfy-looking one with a heart of gold :D or a naughty, rude black and white puppy that narrowly escaped being turned into a toy by a wizard... (sorry, I've been reading Roverandom!)
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As for right and wrong, you said it perfectly --- one of the things I love about Tolkien is he wrote just the way we do: write it, change it, retcon it, give the guy a beard, no, no beard, let X be Y's son, no, brother, no, they never met..... I wrote a fic based around Nirnaeth Arnoediad and one of my author notes reads: Nowhere does it say Gildor is Finwë’s grandson. Then again, nowhere does it say Gildor is NOT Finwë’s grandson. His family and social connections are a blank slate. I wrote on it. We had fun. I think that sums up my whole approach to right/wrong in Silm fic :D
(I'm just sorry I got here so late thanks to family drama, I'm enjoying the discussion so much!)
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one of the things I love about Tolkien is he wrote just the way we do: write it, change it, retcon it, give the guy a beard, no, no beard, let X be Y's son, no, brother, no, they never met....
Yes, exactly! :D
Oh, I write Gildor as a descendant of Finwë too! Yay! (And Aranwë, Voronwë and Glorfindel...I'm terrible for co-opting characters into my favourite disaster family XD )
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The Boys of Summer right? I love that fic. Read it folks, one of Kei's finest (well she has many good fics haha).
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