Fandom Snowflake

[keiliss]

Day 14: In your own space, talk about what you think the future holds for fandom.

Where is fandom going? I don't know. I know where it's been though, for me anyhow. The Tolkien slash corner when I wandered in was like a spiderweb of interconnected circles, first on Yahoo Groups and then on LiveJournal. We didn't all talk to each other and hang out, but we knew of each other and there was a general sense of belonging.There were fights, some really ugly, there were BNFs who could be difficult, but there was always an underlying love for the elves and men we wrote and read about and concern for one another. I tended to keep my personal life to myself, but when my MiL passed, when my much-loved dog died, when I was diagnosed with cancer, I shared these things and all the support and love and kindness that came back to me were incredibly precious.

That community has more or less fallen apart now, people move on, get busy, have more responsibilities in life. People who came in via the movies weren't always drawn to the Silm when it moved to the centre of Tolkien fandom, the days of 'write the story, don't worry too much about canon' gave way to a bigger focus on 'scholarship', which felt elitist to a lot of writers who honestly were just there for the elves and knew a bit of background but didn't have any urge to study HoMe, they just wanted to tell stories (often about characters no one writes about now). I miss those days and those people and that attitude -- fun and love and a bit naughty and under the radar and there for each other. Many of us were the type of friends who exchanged Christmas cards and birthday greetings (and sometimes gifts). Those friends I still have are doubly dear to me now.

I might find something similar one day in the right Discord, but really to me Discord is just like a Yahoo Messenger group chat that goes on and on and on and I only know some of the people and very often the topic doesn't talk to me... I am not an early first age person as a rule, except for Gondolin. Posting - I know this is a general fandom malaise, but we got comments back then. Lots of them. Even on very average fics. I never posted anything that didn't get at least a few comments on LJ, and I was not one of the mainstream writers (did not write E/G back then, nor twincest or Legolas, both very popular). There was never that sense of writing into a void and there was always someone to measure yourself against, someone to look up to, someone to encourage.

So that's some fandom history. Where is it going? I don't know. I don't think we'll have the answer this time next year either. Fandom isn't leaving Tumblr yet, though it will eventually. They only left LJ when there was a sure landing on Tumblr. There's a new generation over there that doesn't know anything else, but there are many of us who've been around for a while and know it can be better. Pillowfort showed promise but they got the spotlight trained on them way too soon and I think were found wanting --- it's a shame, because they have threaded comments, likes, reblogging, all in the same place, but so clunky and awkward at this stage that it's not a pleasure to go play there (and no easily altered themes, oh come on people, even Tumblr knows that matters!). So, it's not the answer yet. Twitter? Oh dear god, I hate Twitter! What I'd love to see is something as user-friendly as LiveJournal, with the threaded comments and image hosting, plus reblogging. I still host images on LJ when I'm in a rush and when I make a post that needs complicated formatting, I go over there and write it, then copy/paste. Why? Because it's a smoother ride. Sorry Dreamwidth, still some distance to go.


Fandom will go on, because as long as there are tales that have gaps that ask questions like 'what then?' and 'why?', people will fill those gaps as we have since time out of mind. The shape that will take further down the road -- who knows? Whatever happens, I hope we don't fragment too far because one day we'll lose touch so completely that the only place we'll occasionally connect will be in the comment threads on AO3. And that would be so sad because fandom is about the writers and artists and the magic they create and the way imagination sparks from one to the other. This is our sandpit, we need to treasure it.


(okay, that was depressing af but I needed to get it off my chest)

Comments

[narya_flame]

Oh gosh, I remember when I first came into fandom, the vast majority of fic seemed to be movieverse, and most of the bookverse stuff was Third Age. Silmfics were quite a niche thing.

I vanished in 2012 and resurfaced in 2017, and that had all changed. I wonder why? (I do get the impression a lot of the younger First Age fans and shippers haven't read the book, although maybe I'm being uncharitable.)

I shared these things and all the support and love and kindness that came back to me were incredibly precious.

I've generally found fandom to be a loving and supportive place. Maybe I've just been lucky with who I've interacted with, but the worst of the shitstorms seemed to be over when I first started doing fandom in around 2007/8 - although there were still lots of people getting their knickers in a twist about slash and Mary-Sues XD

[independence1776]

(I do get the impression a lot of the younger First Age fans and shippers haven't read the book, although maybe I'm being uncharitable.)

Sometimes it feels like they've read a completely different book. (And there are people in general fandom who read and even write fics for canons they haven't read/seen.)

There have been a couple of doozies of wank since that timeframe, but yeah, it had mostly calmed down at that point.

[narya_flame]

Sometimes it feels like they've read a completely different book.

Exactly...but then again, plenty of people disagree with my take on Fëanor's sons, so... *shrugs*

[independence1776]

Good point.

[keiliss]

In mid 2004 when I arrived it was mainly movie verse and Third Age, yes - I was friends with a Silm writer, otherwise it would have taken me a lot longer to find the Silmfic side. I was writing Second Age in 2005 and it was really fringe stuff - a lot of people looked on the Silm as this incredibly Difficult book.

I vanished in 2012 and resurfaced in 2017, and that had all changed. I wonder why?

Just guessing, but Silm fandom has a different flavour to the slash/Third Age space. A bunch of good writers moved on and more Silm fic started coming in and I think writers who'd been around for ages started to feel they'd lost their niche. And it's a shame because there's room for everyone, but there was a deal of gatekeeping at one point that didn't help.

I was a bit nervous when I wrote my first ofc --- it was a relief to find the sky wasn't going to fall after all :D

[narya_flame]

It is a complex book :D and then there's all the other texts, which I didn't read until much, much later...!

I was a bit nervous when I wrote my first ofc --- it was a relief to find the sky wasn't going to fall after all :D

Oh goodness...yes, I remember this too, and yet I've always written OCs, probably because I wrote ofic before fanfic.

[independence1776]

I wasn't in the slash corner of Tolkien fandom… but I feel similar. DW has barely kept some of the community for me and if it wasn't for that, I think I'd feel alone in fandom more than I already have.

I miss those days and those people and that attitude -- fun and love and a bit naughty and under the radar and there for each other.

Me, too.

Posting - I know this is a general fandom malaise, but we got comments back then. Lots of them. Even on very average fics.

This. So many times this. Kudos-- and I know I'm in a minority and I've been jumped on for saying this before-- do not give the same connection that comments do.

I do wonder about why the Silm moved so much to the center. I hadn't really realized that until you said it because I've been Silm-focused for years so it just felt bigger, not central. But…AO3 has only a third more fics in its LotR category than Silm (15k to 10k). Ff.net has much more the ratio I'd expect.

[keiliss]

I tell myself that kudos are as valuable as comments and as sincere and people don't always have time to comment or feel comfortable doing so or are on their phones ----- but it doesn't work very well. I think those of us who've been in fandom since before there was AO3 and kudos are never going to be completely at peace with that. (though it is really nice when someone goes through and leaves kudos on a bunch of fics).

I do wonder about why the Silm moved so much to the center.

Not sure, but as I said to Narya, some of the good writers moved on, jumped fandoms, just stopped writing, and Silmfic started moving in to occupy the space that opened up and I don't think it was always comfortable (or welcoming) for the LotR people. Many who had been regular writers started to lurk - I know that for sure because I did a couple of posts about it that drew responses from a lot of people I hadn't seen active in ages. Loved the fandom, just weren't interested in the Silm. Sad.

[spiced_wine]

With me it was loved the Silm, was just not that interested in LOTR. (I did read some of course, and still do!) However, most of the Silm-fic now, is not something I am interested in. I am following (and re-reading) about 2 stories that are based in the First or Second Age. I’ll be interested to see, though if Amazon’s series brings back writers or a new crop writing well...whatever they cover in the series!

[narya_flame]

It might! Although they may end up effectively in a fandom of their own, as many Hobbit film writers seem to be. I hope not, it would be nice to feel like there is a "Tolkien fandom" again, as there seemed to be on lotrfanfiction.com. (Is that rose-coloured glasses on my part!?)

This is partly why I liked Innumerable Stars so much; there was a really nice mix of fic and art across the LOTR, Silm, and movie sub-fandoms.

[spiced_wine]

Yes, LOTRFF.com certainly seemed to be a wonderful mix. I found LOTR stories I loved there as well as Silm.

Fandom ‘splitting’ is sad, and I still believe, from my own reading experience I’ve the years, that if a writer knows the Legendarium (not necessarily as a scholar, but familiar with the Silm, *and* LOTR *and* the Hobbit) their fanfic is so much better; you can sense the broader history behind everything they write.

[keiliss]

So agree with all of this. Innumerable Stars, the Slashy Swaps and the Reverse Big Bang all have a really good mix - that's how fandom is always supposed to feel.

[keiliss]

Some strange fics been coming out lately, I assume it's a phase. And --- not sure how to word this but so many feel like writing exercises rather than any love for the characters written about, which always for me is what sets fanfiction apart (well that and the digging around that we do in our protagonists' heads :D).

Wish I knew where Amazon would go with the series (rather than the rumours doing the rounds). Then I'd know whether or not to get excited.

[spiced_wine]

Really? That seems really sad to me. When you love characters the passion shows through and the stories are so much deeper.

[narya_flame]

And --- not sure how to word this but so many feel like writing exercises rather than any love for the characters written about

I know what you mean. I think a lot of people use fanfic as "practice" for original fic, though, which isn't how I approach it at all.

I do write certain characters or scenarios or formats as a challenge to myself, sometimes, but I won't publish anything I'm not pleased with.

[independence1776]

It doesn't work well for me, either. I ended up making on Raiyana's suggestion a kudos tracker; it has helped me feel slightly more positive about them than before. People leaving bunches of kudos at once is lovely!

some of the good writers moved on, jumped fandoms, just stopped writing, and Silmfic started moving in to occupy the space that opened up and I don't think it was always comfortable (or welcoming) for the LotR people.

That makes a bunch of sense. For all that we are all part of Tolkien fandom, it does seem like seperate fandoms at times, for better and for worse. Maybe the Amazon series will revitalize that part of the fandom. I hope so.

[keiliss]

Remember the excitement before the Hobbit movies? I was one of the group saying no, it will be its own thing -- and it has turned out very much to be its own thing, because that's how this odd fandom works. I really hope the Amazon series doesn't have the same effect, but anything's possible (and lord knows what they have planned that will cover five seasons...) /After The Hobbit, I'm too scared to hope.

[narya_flame]

I don't think it was always comfortable (or welcoming) for the LotR people

I love the Silm and Silm fandom, but I know what you mean. I think it can feel like there are high barriers for entry now, as increasingly writers draw on not just the published Silm, but HoME, Parma Eldalamberon, the Letters...not that that's a bad thing, but it shouldn't be seen as a minimum requirement for participating in the fandom. It's only very recently that some of those texts have become (relatively) widely available, and it's flipping expensive to acquire the whole lot.

[keiliss]

I think it could be pretty intimidating/look incredibly elitist to someone who wrote long soaps featuring Elrond's sons, Legolas or Haldir (for example). And there were some Silm people who could be a bit slighting about that, which didn't help.

I know a decent amount of canon and where to look for things (or who to ask) if I need information, but there's no way I can afford to buy the more obscure works. I think the emphasis that's crept in on the need for scholarship would frighten me right away if I hadn't been here this long, and it's a pity because it's not a prerequisite.

[independence1776]

This!

Too many times, even on the SWG Discord, someone has popped up with a tidbit from HoME that contradicts what I was saying as if they expect me to change my mind because HOME is given equal, if not overriding, consideration than the Silm itself. I shouldn't feel inadequate simply because I focus on Silm canon! I shouldn't need to feel like I have the entirety of M-e memorized to participate yet there are times I do. And if I'm feeling that way...

[spiced_wine]

Yes, I agree with you, Keiliss. Discord does not do it for me at all, Pillowfort is okay, but very new and so I’ll probably stick to DW and just see where fandom goes. I’m just glad I still know some of the people from the old days! (Although the new friends I’ve made are lovely).

[keiliss]

There are some lovely 'new' people, and this has taught me not to take any online friendships for granted ever again.

[spiced_wine]

Yes, I agree :)

[rhapsody]

the days of 'write the story, don't worry too much about canon' gave way to a bigger focus on 'scholarship', which felt elitist to a lot of writers who honestly were just there for the elves and knew a bit of background but didn't have any urge to study HoMe, they just wanted to tell stories

I hope that I always encouraged or gave the vibe to people to just have fun with the material that was out there. Sure I read the books, I still read whatever the estate decides to publish (the hardback ed of the fall of Gondolin begs to be read still). I just never got the 'you must exactly write this because the professor absolutely intended it this way-people. No matter when or how, this never gets old for some people. Live and l let live I'd say.

But having left the fandom, I don't encounter these peeps again (and Twitter can be fun, truly!), I just keep tabs on those people that I care and love, but I am so glad that I don't have to keep an eye on fannish vibes anymore.

[keiliss]

Wow, I never replied. I can't believe I did this (or rather, didn't do this) And you were always the most caring, welcoming person, never judging people's content and choices and so encouraging. But you're right, making rules based on what the Professor would want will never grow old for some people, even when it's something he quite possibly wouldn't agree with them over.

It always feels so good when you look in. I understand why you're not around, I guess, but I do miss you *hugs*. Hope all is well with everyone.